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A Judge walks into the court room. Giving 3 verdicts :
“Mistrial” and of “Not Guilty” and of “Guilty”
– “Mistrial” because of an outright violation of legal procedure (influenced jury, perjury, evidence tampered,,,)
– “Not Guilty” because the accused has been proven innocence beyond reasonable doubt
– “Guilty” because there is sufficient evidence pointing to the perpetrator
* Either one is “Guilty” or “Not Guilty” but not both at the same time
THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL NEVER, EVER CONVICT THE BELIEVER OF SIN
The holy Spirit convicts of sin. YES and A BIG NO :
YES, because the world refuse to believe in Jesus – to unbelievers
NO, because the believers are convicted of righteousness and not sin – to believers
John 16:8-11 (NKJV)
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of “sin”, and of “righteousness”, and of “judgment”: 9 of “sin”, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of “righteousness”, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of “judgment”, because the ruler of this world is judged.
The holy Spirit is not your personal “sin detector” or “sin litmus test”. If your obedience is based on the Law and not faith, definitely your sin consciousness is condemning you. The holy Spirit has nothing to do with it.
Unbelievers do not have the holy Spirit in them, yet they know they’re actions are sinful.
When Jesus was with His disciples, He was constantly reminding them “You guys are righteous, I am your righteousness”. Jesus would probably go on to say “Relax, don’t worry I got your back”. Remember Jesus asking Peter? “Peter, Do you love me”? He never reminded Peter of his famous “3 counts of denial”. Denying Jesus before man is a serious crime. if you deny Jesus, He will deny you before God as well. But why did Jesus NOT remind Peter of sin? See the point? May the holy Spirit reveal to you why!
Imagine how would it like to be with Jesus when He healed the sick man on the Sabbath day? The Law Experts convicted Jesus of sin. Jesus was even accused as the devil’s son. For sure the Law Experts have attack Jesus’s disciple also just like how the believers today are attacked by the Law Experts.
* 10 of “righteousness”, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more *
Now, Jesus goes back to His Father in heaven. His disciples now apostles will be left here on earth. Who would remind them of righteousness? Who would remind the believers of righteousness?
The holy Spirit will remind us of righteousness. And the holy Spirit does it without an iota of guilt or an ounce of condemnation pointing you to sin.
Believers of the Past, the Present and the Future are and will be convicted of righteousness. But it is easy to be condemned. Just listen or read to sin conscious driven sermons and you will see what I mean.
THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT REMIND THE BELIEVER TO CONFESS SINS
What? So the holy Spirit convicts us of sin? And then we confess our sins to God? Because of this 1:J:1:9
1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Why do we make God to be like that of an earthly Priest? Of whom we do yearly confessions?
No! Me Genoito (greek)! God Forbid!
The Eternal blood of Jesus has forgiven us Eternally! Count the grains of sand in all the beaches of this earth. Then let 1 dove fly to the moon back and forth. Each trip with a grain of sand in its beak. As soon as earth is empty of sands, then forever has just begun!
Do Jesus die everyday to forgive sins? Then why are we crucifying Jesus and nailing Him back at the cross?
Hebrews 9:12-14 (NKJV)
12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 10:1-10 (NKJV)
10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
There is no more consciousness of sin, because we are purified once and for all.
There is no more reminder of sin, because the sacrifice offered is perfect.
There is no more sacrifice needed because the eternal blood of Jesus has taken away sins!
Please drop 1:J:1:9 and meditate on C:134
Colossians 1:13-14 (NKJV)
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins
Psalm 103:12 (NKJV)
12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
Acts 13:38-39 (NKJV)
38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
– Grace and Peace
————————–appended——————————
YOU CANNOT BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT
The word Blasphemy is scary to Christians. The second word that comes to their mind is “holy Spirit”
Let me tell you. A believer cannot blaspheme against the holy Spirit. That is an impossibility! When we say Jesus did miracles by the power of the devil, then that is blasphemy against the holy Spirit.
Can a believer truly say that? Can we say Jesus does miracle by the devil?
Again, the holy Spirit does not convict the believers of sin but rather convicts the believer of righteousness (John 16:8-11). It is not a blasphemy against the holy Spirit if we say the holy Spirit convicts believer of sin.
But it simply grieves the holy Spirit. He is simply misunderstood.
– Grace and Peace
the gospel of grace 
Amen! Hallelujah..
Amen bro! As believers we are now under the ministry of righteousness and not under the old ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9).
The Holy Spirit is our teacher, our guide, and counselor; as the One who watches over us, I do believe that He does actually convict us of sin.
I would caution against calling that statement blasphemy, for Jesus has said blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable- but such a judgment you condemn all who believe the Spirit does prick our hearts and convict us when we do commit sins.
The will for God towards us is that we walk with Him in the Light; I could not figure out if you were saying that confession is a one-time deal- so I won’t assume that you are saying that. But I think it is quite clear that we are commanded to confess our sins to one another after having become saved- to pray for one another- to exhort, encourage and even rebuke with love one another when one is wrong.
The power of Christ’s sacrifice, as you described, is eternal and all powerful- and it does not do well to dwell on sin. But the apostles seemed aware of something that caused them to counsel believers to “walk circumspectly for the age is wicked”, and to be aware of the devil who prowls about like a roaring lion looking for one to devour.
So I hope to encourage the brethren, in the love of Christ to press on toward the goal in faith, hope, and love; to resist the devil and make certain the election and calling which we have so preciously preserved for us in Heaven. To walk in the Light and fellowship of the Lord Jesus Christ, knowing also that we cannot walk in the darkness- not because God turns a blind eye to this, but because it is not permissible.
@”I do believe that He does actually convict us of sin”
–
– i would like to believe so…
– but can you show me a scripture reference?
@”I would caution against calling that statement blasphemy, for Jesus has said blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable”
–
– blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is saying that Jesus did His miracles by the power of the devil
– Believers cannot commit this unpardonable sin.
– http://carm.org/what-blasphemy-holy-spirit-can-christian-commit-it
@”I could not figure out if you were saying that confession is a one-time deal-”
–
– https://thegospelofgrace.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/daily-sin-confessions-is-a-license-to-sin-practice/
@”to be aware of the devil who prowls about like a roaring lion looking for one to devour”
–
– Roaring lion means, the Devil imitates God
A king’s wrath is like the roar of a lion;
– proverbs 20:2
A king’s rage is like the roar of a lion,
– proverbs 19:12
Jesus is the real lion. He is the Lion of Judah.
@”To walk in the Light and fellowship of the Lord Jesus Christ, knowing also that we cannot walk in the darkness- not because God turns a blind eye to this, but because it is not permissible.”
–
– Amen.
– We are the light of the world. When we walk in darkness, darkness is no more
grace and peace brother.
Hey, sorry for the late reply- work keeps busy!
I don’t mean to be argumentative, especially on your personal site. So I recognize that there are differences between our thoughts on this in regards to sin.
Some references regarding the Spirit’s role in our “conviction” can be found in the following:
1st Thess. 1:5 “for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction.” Paul is speaking of the work of the Spirit that brings about great conviction (which, btw, goes beyond sin, I believe, and is immensely related to the conviction of faith in Christ- but I see no reason to suggest that this does not include a conviction of sin if someone sins).
John 16:13-15 talks about how the Spirit will lead us into all Truth. Part of the gospels truth is that of repentance from dead works and obedience to Jesus Christ because He is the One and only way. The Christian is the one who believes in Jesus and therefore departs, so it is a Christian that needs to know from what he/she should depart.
Finally, 1st Peter 1:2 talks about the sanctifying work of the Spirit. This returns us to the point that we depart from our dead works and that requires something higher than us to convict us regarding such things because, in ourselves, we are blind. It is the Spirit who brings us along in the ways of Truth (as our guide and teacher), just as you said He leads us into the ways of righteousness. Conversely, He must also convict us of the works that we will cease from (because that has to come from Him, not us, otherwise it is a dead work).
Anyway, those are a few thoughts. Of course, I recognize that we may not see eye to eye on these issues. But I appreciate the thoughts!
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@”I don’t mean to be argumentative, especially on your personal site.”
—————————————————————————————————-
– i know bro :)
—————————————————————————————————-
@”Some references regarding the Spirit’s role in our “conviction” can be found in the following:”
@”1st Thess. 1:5 “for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the
Holy Spirit and with full conviction.”
@”Paul is speaking of the work of the Spirit that brings about great conviction (which, btw, goes
beyond sin, I believe, and is immensely related to the conviction of faith in Christ- but I see
no reason to suggest that this does not include a conviction of sin if someone sins).
—————————————————————————————————-
– thank you for taking time to write scripture references
– I am trying to understand what would be the reason why the holy Spirit will convict a believer of sin
– 1. convicts of sin, so that believer confess sins, to be forgiven, else believer goes to hell
2. to remind believer of sin for confession
a. examples of sin
– doubt – anything done without faith is sin
– worry
– not doing what is ought to be done
– therefore if it is for forgiveness that the believer should confess sins,
then we must confess consistently every day, hour, minute
Check this scripture refences below ..
————————————————–
Leviticus 27:11-12 (NIV)
11 If what they vowed is a ceremonially unclean animal—one that is not acceptable as an
offering to the LORD—the animal must be presented to the priest,
12 who will judge its quality as good or bad. Whatever value the priest then sets, that
is what it will be.
– Leviticus talks about whatever value the priest sets for an offering is its value.
– We know Jesus Is our High Priest and also our perfect sacrifice,
without blemish, without spot offering to God
– the value of Jesus is eternal and beyond
Hebrews 10:1-2 (NIV)
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.
For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year,
make perfect those who draw near to worship.
2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been
cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.
– Hebrews says, There is no more conciousness of sin. why? because the sacrifice is perfect
– and also we are made perfect.
– the perfect sacrifice is Jesus.
– so this is totally against the idea of sin conciousness in believers.
– to have sin conciousness, means to have no knowledge of Jesus’s value and perfect work
– let me know if both our understanding is the same
1 Peter 3:18 (NASB)
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might
bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
– Peter says Jesus died once and for all for sins.
– in the old testament, sacrifce is offered year after year.
– but Jesus death is once and for all. the blood of Jesus is eternal,
therefore it covers for all our sins (past present future)
so with the verses above,
I dont know how to fit in the idea of “holy Spirit” convicting a believer of sin.
I also learned that the holy Spirit convicts the world of 1 sin only.. that is the sin of unbelief.
not even the kind of sin we though of like murder, adultery, stealing, gossip etc….
—————————————————————————————————-
@”John 16:13-15 talks about how the Spirit will lead us into all Truth. Part of the gospels truth is
that of repentance from dead works and obedience to Jesus Christ because He is the One and only way.
The Christian is the one who believes in Jesus and therefore departs, so it is a Christian that needs
to know from what he/she should depart.”
—————————————————————————————————-
– I generally agree with what you say
– The new laws are written in our heart.
– unspoken laws like
not wanting to drive your car today. then you found out its brake are lose
or not accepting a job offer, then you found out the company is into illegal stuff
or you just kept quite in an accusation against you, after sometime the person realizes you were right
John 16:13-15
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.
He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
– the holy Spirit will guide us in all truth
– the holy Spirit will not speak on His own only what He hears
– the holy Spirit will glorify Jesus
Hebrews 10 (NASB)
15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16 “THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,
17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”
– the holy Spirit Testifies “(GOD) will by no means remember our sins no more”
question. how can the holy Spirit convict us of sin?
– if the holy Spirit speaks only what He hears from God
– if God cannot remember our sins?
– how can the holy Spirit glorify Jesus,
when He reminds you of your sins? whereas Jesus said it is finished?
and that we are rigthouess because of what Jesus has done.
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hey bro, It does not matter if we agree or not. because It does not affect our salvation in anyway.
as long as we both of us believes we are saved by grace and not by works then that is good enough.
sorry to post alot of verses, you must be scrolling your mouse.
I am just making sure I am not saying anything out of my own opinion. I easily get swayed.
let me know what you think
grace and peace multiplied unto you
– grace and peace
David,
thanks you for your comment. I felt the responsibility to add this.
YOU CANNOT BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is not a blasphemy against the holy Spirit if we say the holy Spirit convicts believer of sin
– grace and peace
– Title Changed from
“to say the holy Spirit convicts of sin is blasphemy”
to
“the holy spirit convicts the believer of righteousness not sin
thanks to david
-grace and peace
David – very nicely put and thank you for expressing your thoughts, and thank you saved by grace for expressing your beliefs because we all need to grow and learn and unite as the body of Christ – but I want you to ask you a question and I want you to seriously think about it. What motivated you to change the title of your blog posting? Didn’t you experience a nudging in your heart that this was the wrong thing to do? I would say that the nudging is the Holy Spirit. We are no longer under Law, and that is true, the new law is agape, and it means unconditional and self-sacrificing love. We don’t want to look at repentance as a bad thing. It is actually a good thing – to know that if you have done something that is weighing on your conscience or if you have not obeyed what God wanted you to do you can still go to Him as a loving Father, and through the power of the blood of Jesus be cleansed from all sin.
Thanks for your awesome testimony!! When you become a Christian it doesn’t mean you always having everything right, but as you learn and grow and learn and grow then you will be able to understand the relationship that you have with Jesus. When you understand that relationship you have with Jesus and you begin to grow closer to Him He will start to show you things that are wrong in your life, but He only does it when you are ready. Repentance is not necessarily a bad thing because it lets you have the freedom to know that when you have done something wrong you don’t have to have it weighing over your conscience. It can be very liberating. Repentance doesn’t have to be a daily ritual just done for ritual’s sake, but it is definitely liberating when you are trying to enter into the Presence of God and you have all this baggage weighing you down. Keep growing in the faith savedbygrace. Remember to always test out the Scriptures and be like the Bereans.
@”What motivated you to change the title of your blog posting?”
– this words from david
– “but such a judgment you condemn all who believe the Spirit
does prick our hearts and convict us when we do commit sins”
– I realize I sound like condenming those who believe
The holy Spirit convicts of sin.
– worst, I’ve asked a friend about the title.
not the content, He said I sounded like a pharisee. hahaha.
– So, yes I am humbled.
@”Didn’t you experience a nudging in your heart that this was the wrong
thing to do? I would say that the nudging is the Holy Spirit”
– I felt as if I disapointed Jesus actually.
– I felt as if I’ve blaspheme words because of the title, how ironic right?
– This is post is my first post after 3 months. and I always quit because
as if I felt so guilty.
– the devil is consistently in accusation mode against me
– but the holy Spirit kept on saying “You are righteous”, “You are righteous”
that kept me going…
@”We don’t want to look at repentance as a bad thing”
– indeed, I just had a repentance..
– when I realize the title was offensive, I had a repentance.
– I had a change of mind (repentance, metanoi in greek)
@”through the power of the blood of Jesus be cleansed from all sin”
– Amen, the blood of Jesus cleanses us continually
“…we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have
fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus,
his Son, CLEANSES us from all sin.”
“Cleanses” The verb tense is present,active,indicative. It is continuously cleansing us… amen.
@”Repentance doesn’t have to be a daily ritual just done for ritual’s sake”
– amen.
– everytime we have a revelation of God’s love for us,
a change of heart and mind happens.. metanoi and metamelomai happens
@”Remember to always test out the Scriptures and be like the Bereans”
– thank you for the reminder
thank you very much for your kind words.
– grace and peace
You’ll be in my prayers – I pray that you and me both will have strong footing in the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and pursue His holiness. Thank you for being gracious with me. God works out all things for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
1 John 1:9 is dealing with lost gnostics, not believers. Today Christians still want some control mechanism to keep themselves forgiven. Satan uses a misunderstanding of 1 John 1:9 to keep us away from grace, and to try to get us back under a law of keeping ourselves forgiven. It’s an impossibility. We can’t keep ourselves forgiven, this is why Jesus went to the cross. We are already forgiven of past, present and future sins. Gnostics didn’t believe Jesus came in the flesh and so didn’t believe that they were sinners. John is simply inviting them into the fellowship of believers because gnostics believed they didn’t sin.
Sorry I put that line about repentence twice ;)
its alright :)
I don’t know why it won’t let me ‘reply’ to one of your above comments, but it won’t. So I’m replying to this one :D
In your above comment you asked about the purpose of the Spirit’s conviction on believers regarding sin.
I would suggest that God’s will is always manifold (many-sided). The apostles did consistently warn believers to depart from their iniquity (and this teaching, we know for sure, comes from Jesus who commanded men everywhere to repent of sins and turn from them), and they warned of the wrath of God that will fall on all such men who walk in the darkness.
Unfortunately, most people underestimate the power of God’s grace and the depth of His love for His children- it is very true that He will not let the Spirit of Grace be insulted (Heb. 10:29), yet it is also true that the Kindness of God leads us (Christians) to repentance (Romans 2:4).
So, I do not deny that there is an element in which the Spirit protects us by guiding us from sin.
However, that is not the only manifold reason God has in this (I think).
God said, “You shall be Holy, therefore, because I am holy” (1st Peter 1:16). The power behind the gospel is that it brings life to all men through Jesus Christ. Therefore, I would submit that one of the many manifold reasons the Spirit has in convicting us of sin is so that we would learn to walk in a righteous and pleasing manor before God.
In essence, it is exactly what you said above: the Spirit convicts believers of righteousness. One of the manifold ways the Spirit witnesses to us of righteousness is by training us to depart from sin and walk in Christ Jesus our Lord- to walk as He walked. Which is pleasing to God and brings life and light to the world through the Lord.
A second manifold reason is that we know the Lord disciplines those whom He loves (Hebrews 12:6), and this for their own benefit. This can be a chastening carried out through the Spirit as He speaks, not on His own initiative, just as Jesus did not speak on His own, but by every Word that the Lord would have Him to speak- and those Words are the words of life and righteousness.
Finally, Jesus is called the “author and finisher of our faith” (Heb 12:2). Even our faith is not entirely of our own volition. And we know that lawlessness results in further lawlessness (Rom 6:19) and that it is because of lawlessness that love grows cold (Mt. 24:12), but that it is by faith that we are righteous (Rm 1:17 & 9:30).
If sin and lawlessness (in our case, lawlessness would be disobedience to the Law of Life in the Spirit of Christ Jesus- Rm 8:2) stand against righteousness (which is by faith) and result in death and the dimming of love, then it is for the preservation of our faith in Christ Jesus that we need Him to convict us and turn us from the unrighteousness of our own paths and direct our ways in the paths of righteousness which only He knows.
The power of the gospel is that we now have what is necessary for life. I think this is so manifold that those who “take it up” cannot be overcome because of the work in the Lord. That is why the apostles were always trying to get them to take it up, and they were quite concerned when they saw them putting back on the bonds of slavery to sin (Galatians 5).
That brings us to the sacrifice of Christ. As Leviticus mentions, there was a lot involved in the sacrifice, and they were unable to present a perfect sacrifice because of their own uncleanness- so the value of Christ as our High Priest and sacrifice is perfect and unblemished.
So we know that the sacrifice and the priest are in no way lacking. Nor is the salvation- which is why we do not want to strip that salvation of any part or element that has been prescribed for us as a means of life in Christ.
I would like to make clear that the sacrifice is no offered again and again- it is a once for all- just as you pointed out with Hebrews 10:1-2. And I also hope that we agree that repentance is not an offering, as if some kind of “work for salvation”, but the agreement in both confession and action with the Truth that has been made manifest in Jesus Christ.
I’ve seen you mention above that you believe that believers will confess their sins; and this is good, for the Bible says we will and anyone who does not confess their sins is arrogant.
So, obviously, there is an awareness of sin. But the difference between an awareness of sin and the guilt of condemnation for sin is quite vast.
As a believer in Christ have I “faith, hope, and love- the greatest of these being love”, by which I am renewed day by day into life and righteousness as I “mature into the fullness of the head, even Christ Jesus our Lord”. I do not feel condemnation for my sins- and I would point out that if I did, I am either 1) being tempted and tricked into ungodly guilt by Satan, or 2) perhaps I am not a Christian and the Word of Truth is pressing hard upon me- rather, as a believer, I feel the discipline of the Lord through the conviction of the Spirit. This produces life. It does not produce condemnation in me.
In fact, Hebrews 10:10 says that we’ve been Sanctified by Christ, once for all- meaning His sacrifice was offered once for the sanctification of all (and we know that is for all who accept it, etc).
This is why I mentioned 1st Peter 1:2 and the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. This is part of that.
In other words, Christ’s offering does not turn a blind eye towards sin as if it no longer exists- for heaven forbid that a believer commit murder and say “I have not sinned!” or lusts after his neighbors wife and commits adultery and declares “I have not done any wrong!” For that would be a day in which the children of God call that which is bad good and despise the word of the Lord (Isaiah 5:20)!
Rather, the offering of Christ, once for all, deals with Sin so that we become righteous.
So, as you have rightly divided, saying that Christ was offered once and for all, and so have discerned the greatness of God’s gift and power. What I am talking about is our growing and maturing in the new life that we have in Christ Jesus. That is a most important distinction to make, I think.
I appreciate speaking from the Word, as I believe we should do! So no need to apologize!
My calling and appointing by the Lord is in that of strengthening and equipping the brethren in His body. So I always want to “speak the Truth in Love” and exhort the brethren to make certain their election and calling in Christ Jesus and be vigilant to discern their faith, rightly and accurately handling the Word of God.
I believe that there are things in which it is not love to “simply disagree on” because they do affect salvation, however, I trust only in the power of the Truth and the Spirit of God to convict men of these things. I know some will harden their hearts, others may be deceived (parable of the soils, for example), but I also believe that love overcomes evil.
Anyway, I hope some of that clarifies some of what I thought.
Grace and Peace be multiplied to you in the True knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ!
for the sake of our readers, let us establish this first
“David and I are behemently against sin and sinning…”
as always thanks for sharing your thoughts
– grace and peace
“For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace”
– Romans 6:14
I can’t seem to reply to specific comments above. But this is in reply to David’s comments.
In my studies and personal life I know that the Holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sin. God does not want us sin conscious.
– To this comment “But I think it is quite clear that we are commanded to confess our sins to one another after having become saved- to pray for one another- to exhort, encourage and even rebuke with love one another when one is wrong.”
I assume that you got this from James 5. The book of James is written to all Jew’s including unbelieving ones. James starts with this “James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.”
He is writing to His Jewish brothers that have been under the law for generations (since mount Sinai). You will find that throughout the book of James it talks about being led to salvation and calling on the name of the Lord for forgiveness of sins. Which would mean that not all of them were saved. There are sections in James where he brings the law they are trying to follow to it’s maximum. It is impossible for man to completely obey the perfect law of God. But he always ends with having them call on the name of the Lord for salvation and healing. Interestingly enough James ends the book in chapter 5 with leading the sinners from their errors and saving their souls from death. So let’s be careful in saying that this is meant for the believers. As believers we are no longer to confess our sins. It is a trap from the enemy to be sin conscious. After all Satan is called “the accuser of the brethren”. As savedbygrace stated above the power to sin no more is because we are under grace and Christ focused as stated in Romans 6:14
You also mentioned Hebrews 12. And the Lord’s discipline for those He loves. Paul wrote Hebrews to Hebrew people. So it must be read with that understanding. Paul is writing to believing Jews. And the Lord’s discipline is not a discipline from sin. It is a discipline from the covenant of the Law. Paul is writing to believing Jews about moving away from the covenant of death and condemnation and to the covenant of life and righteousness. Paul says that this discipline is painful and trust me it is. The Lord doesn’t want any believer under the Law. The Law only speaks to your flesh so discipline makes your flesh (self effort) scream. The discipline is to move you from the old covenant of self effort to the new covenant of grace and rest in Christs finished work.
Also repentance does not mean confession. Repentance in the Greek means “change of mind”.
The Holy Spirit wants us righteousness conscious and not sin conscious. I have written about the power to not sin here: http://wp.me/p1PIq6-3B
As believers it is crucial that we deny the lies of the enemy and move away from anything that accuses us and produces guilt and condemnation. Because this is the trap to continue sinning.
Peace and grace
I just read this last comment in response to David from Aram2255 and couldn’t hold myself back any longer. Concerning your comments that these books of the new testament such as Hebrews and James must be understood from the “Jewish perspective,” that’s a lot of bologne. If we were to understand the Scriptures from the “Jewish mind” rather than from the “mind of Christ,” which we have also received by way of the Holy Spirit, then we would all reject Christ just like the Jews do. It is the Holy Spirit which reveals the meaning of the Scriptures, not rebellious Jewish perspectives. If you want to be a minister of His “grace,” then learn more about His manifold grace, or “the true grace of God,” as Peter says, which doesn’t include ignoring ungodliness and sinfulness and refusing to admit your wrong even when you’re wrong. It’s only the devil who wants you to ignore that and then blame the sin on God by saying “God can’t see my sin, so I can do whatever I want, because of Jesus’ work God doesn’t see my sin when I do sin, no worries, don’t be conscience of that sexual sin of messing around with pornography, in fact put a smile on your face while you sit in front of that computer knowing that because of Jesus, God can’t see how you’re sinning against Him right now!” What a damnable thing. When Paul rebuked Peter for his hypocrisy do you think Peter said, “yes Paul you’re right, but I cannot admit I’m wrong because that would be sin conscienceness, I can only change my mind sub-consciencely, and no I can’t apologize to God or His people who I sinned against because that would be sin conscienceness and as you know Jesus has taken away all sin, so let’s pretend it didn’t happen, ok? That will be better for face reasons anyway so the pillar of the church is not humiliated anyways!” David, you and I know as a faithful minister of Christ we will preach against sin in the church and call them to repentance here in Asia so they don’t hide it because of “face” reasons or so called pride, and cause a little leaven to leaven the whole lump, just as much as we would preach about sin and righteousness and judgement to come in the world so that men may believe and repent and be saved. It’s only a mature Spirit-filled Christian who can judge themselves by the mind of Christ and see when they have sinned in some way and admit they were wrong to God, and yes, repent, which is actually a change of mind that will result in a change of actions if genuine. If I sin against my wife by saying something rude to her which was not out of love, I say I’m sorry and turn away from it. If I get angry and have a bad attitude in some situation towards my best friend David, I say I’m sorry and I turn away from it. If I hurt my mom’s feelings because I was insensitive I say I’m sorry and turn away from it. If you do something that is not pleasing to God, and He is truly your best friend and Heavenly Father, do you not say you’re sorry and then turn away from it? If God cannot see your sin, then how is it possible for Christians to “grieve the Holy Spirit.” How is that possible to grieve God as a Christian if He can’t see your sinning? Are you really that cold towards God that you refuse to see your sin when it happens and then feel convicted and sorry enough to bring it before Him in confession and turn away? That doens’t mean I’m not trusting in Christ, that means I am trusting and obeying Christ by making no excuse for sin. If I didn’t have faith in Christ then I would just sear my conscience towards sin like the rest of these guys and then blame my sinful lifestyle on Jesus thereby portraying the Lord of Glory as a minister of sin. God help all of you and me!
Hi bradn,
thank you for your comment. I haven’t seen aram for a while, so i guess i’ll
try to comment on some of what you said
is Fear sin? – Revelation 21:8
is Doubt sin? – Romans 14:23
didn’t the disciples feared and doubt?
is denying Jesus before man sin? will Jesus deny them before the father?
– Matthew 10:33
didn’t Peter denied Jesus? 3 times?
when Jesus met the disciples after His ressurection,
nowhere did Jesus
reminded them of their sins.
God forgotten all their sins…
……………..
“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
– Hebrew 8:12
……………..
now the questions is this.
did God forgot past sins? present sins? or future sins? or all time sins?
You said @@……………….
– It’s only the devil who wants you to ignore that and then blame the
– sin on God by saying “God can’t see my sin, so I can do whatever I want,
– because of Jesus’ work God doesn’t see my sin when I do sin, no worries,
– don’t be conscience of that sexual sin of messing around with pornography
@@……………………….
this is exactly what sin conciousness is all about. the genuine believer
who understands how much God loves them are the ones who hates sin and will
do things that will please God.
……………..
“I tell you, her sins–and they are many–have been forgiven, so she has shown
me much love. But a person who is forgiven little shows only little love.”
– Luke 7:47
……………..
You cannot be under grace and continue in sin and sinning. if a person claims
to be under grace and yet continues in sin, i can guarantee you, its not grace.
……………..
“It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live
self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,”
– Titus 2:12
……………..
Hebrews says no more consciousness of sins. because Christ did a perfect
sacrifice. if we have conciosness of sins, then it means Christ sacrifice
is like that of bulls and goats because the bulls and goats cannot perfect
the concsience of the worshipers
……………..
“Moses’ Teachings with their yearly cycle of sacrifices are only a shadow
of the good things in the future. They aren’t an exact likeness of those
things. They can never make those who worship perfect.
Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers,
having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?”
– Hebrews 10:1-2 (GW, ESV)
……………..
so if all your sins are forgiven, and that God not only forgotten the sins but
righteously punish them all at the body of Jesus, whats there left?
I agree. we sin everyday. i must admit, some bloggers attacks me personally
and i became angry then sin. but as far as God is concern? I am righteous
before him, because of Jesus – my substitution.
You said @@……………….
– If I get angry and have a bad attitude in some situation towards my best
– friend David, I say I’m sorry and I turn away from it
@@……………………….
I get your point about saying sorry to your friend david when you hurt him
James says so.
……………..
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that
you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
– James 5:16
……………..
James says to confess our sins to each other and pray for each other
I believe this is confessing on righteousness ground, not to get righteous.
otherwise their praying for each other is not powerful and effective
but do we confess sins to God in order to be forgiven of sins?
are we forgiven in a piecemeal basis? or once and for all
……………..
“For Christ died for sins once for all”
– 1 Peter 3:18
……………..
……………..
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people;
and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation
to those who are waiting for him.
– Hebrews 9:28
……………..
Christ died once and for all to take away the sins.
When Christ resurrected and met with his disciples
who were (doubting, fearing, and denied Him) He did not bear sin their sin,
but rather brough salvation to those who are waiting for him.
our righteousness is Jesus, not ours.
we do not maintain our righteousness by confession of sins.
our righteosness does not go away
we are a new creation, we are made righteous before God
because of Christ
……………..
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for
us wisdom from God that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption
– 1 Corinthians 1:30
……………..
woe to those who continue in sin and claims to be righteous and under grace!
as John says
……………..
“If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who
practices righteousness has been born of him”
– 1 John 2:29
……………..
……………..
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness
is righteous, as he is righteous
– 1 John 3:7
……………..
there is no more sacrifices to do. All our sins has been forgiven..
……………..
Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin
– Hebrews 10:18
……………..
You said @@……………….
– like the rest of these guys and then blame my sinful lifestyle on Jesus thereby
– portraying the Lord of Glory as a minister of sin
@@……………………….
not really. we are minister of reconciliation, not of condemnation
reconciliation
……………..
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us
the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself
in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us
the message of reconciliation
2 Corinthians 5:18
……………..
condemnation
……………..
If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the
ministry that brings righteousness!
– 2 Corinthians 3:9
……………..
so now, I am under grace.
You said @@……………….
– do you not say you’re sorry and then turn away from it?
@@……………………….
I grew up in the church from childhood. I claimed to be a christian
growing up, I almost chopped my mother with a jungle bolo.
I repented. but did not confess my sins.
I joined different ministries. I almost lost my life too. I was active in church
here i learned the “art of confessing your sins”.
now 7 years ago, I was involved in adultery. pornography? i’ve done beyond that.
so i confess my sins because 1 john 1:9 says so.
I repented, beat my chest. with sincerity i wanted to turn away.
guess what happen, it grew worst!
so now, I had mistresses upon mistresses.
but then i say sorry to God. i confess my sins.
I repented, beat my chest again.
then guess what happen?
I almost [censored] my wife, during one of our fights.
but then I confess my sins again. 1 john 1:9 says.
I had fights with my father in Law too, same thing.
had my wife not arrived home, either he or me is dead.
during those years, I have accepted Jesus and said the
sinners prayer more than 7 times.
I confess almost everytime I am concious of sin.
I grew into depression. despair. honestly.
so how did it all ended?
when I heard a message that says God loved me so much,
that he gave Jesus His Son for me, and that all my sins
including white lies or grave adultery has been forgiven and
that I am righteous not by trying to perform,
I got saved!
did I repent this time? yes. but not the one like beating your chest.
I learned that I had a change of mind. because I realized the goodness of God
it is the goodness of God leads us to repentance.
……………..
do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience,
not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?
– Romans 2:4
……………..
do you see my point?
it is the grace of God that empowers me to sin no more.
dont get me wrong. “the devil, every minute is reminding me of my sins”
“the devil is condemning me every minute”
but I declare! by the blood of Jesus I am forgiven of all my sins!
wew.. that was a long post :)
Hi Brad, it’s always good to discuss our understanding of the Word. To verify that what we are understanding lines up with the truth and that it is truly a revelation from God and not our own fleshly reasoning.
So I take your comments as a good discussion point. I will start my reply with saying that your arguments are based on false assumptions and nothing factual that I said in my comment to David. You stated “Concerning your comments that these books of the new testament such as Hebrews and James must be understood from the “Jewish perspective,” ” and a “Jewish mind”. There are no such words or implications made by me in my comment. What I said was that we must understand who the books are written TO. Now, the Word of God is written for all believers (every single word is for the believer). But it is critical to understand the context of the scriptures, who the Holy Spirit is writing through and to who it is written to.
Proverbs 25:2 says “It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.” So as kings it is our honour to search out the truths that God has concealed in His Word.
Based on your false assumptions your accusations are false as well. You say things like “rebellious Jewish perspectives” which have no grounds and are your own contrived conclusions based on nothing factual that is in my comment.
You also stated ” If you want to be a minister of His “grace,” then learn more about His manifold grace, or “the true grace of God,” as Peter says, which doesn’t include ignoring ungodliness and sinfulness and refusing to admit your wrong even when you’re wrong.”
Nothing in my comment said to ignore ungodliness and sinfulness and refuse to admit you’re wrong. I am 100% against sin, God hates sin! But the good news is that Christ bore all of our sin on the cross, the wrath of God for all of our sins fell on Jesus and He cried “It is finished”. We are called to rest in His finished work. My comment said that God does not want us sin conscious but righteousness conscious. Hebrews 10 is a beautiful picture of this. It says in verse 12 that Jesus “offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.” In verse 17 God says “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” So if God no longer remembers why do we and why do we try and remind Him by always confessing?
It says in verse 22 “let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.” And then in verse 26″If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,”
I have been a Christian since the age of 10 and I have lived the “guilty conscience”, “always confessing” life. I found that I could never remember all of my sins, and there were some that I was unknowingly doing. As a teenager I would fall asleep confessing all of my daily sins. What did that lead me to…..it lead me to sin. It says in 1 Corinthians 15:56 that “the strength of sin is the law”. So the more law and sin conscious that I was the more sin I committed. Sin had dominion over me but I thank God for the truth “For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.” Romans 6:14.
And now under grace, the more grace I receive daily the less sin in my life. The sin that had me trapped, supernaturally and effortlessly left. Instead of obedience to the law I was now obedient to the promptings of the Spirit as per Romans 7:6 “But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life].”
You mention Paul confronting Peter about his hypocrisy. But nowhere in Galatians 2 does it mention confession of sin. Paul’s discipline of Peter is the same way God disciplines us the believer. Peter was under the new covenant of grace yet he was going back to the old covenant of the law. He preached grace but when the Jews from Jerusalem arrived he went back to living as a Jew under the Law; in fear of what they would say. God’s discipline for us is to move us away from the old covenant of the law and place us always under His covenant of grace. This is what Paul did with Peter. This cannot be confused with sin consciousness, in fact it is grace/righteousness consciousness. And Paul explains this from verse 16 and on.
And to let Bible interpret Bible let’s go to another passage. This one is Jesus Himself explaining what the Holy Spirit was sent to do. John 16:8-11. “8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.” So according to this the only sin the Holy Spirit convicts the world of is the sin of not believing in Jesus. There is no mention anywhere else in scripture that says that the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin. In this passage He convicts the world.
Under pure grace I choose to focus on the finish work and fullness of Jesus. I am the righteousness of God in Christ. And as He is so am I in this world. This is the truth that has disarmed the enemy, he can no longer use the law and guilt and condemnation to trap us into a life of sin. Let’s remember that it’s the enemy that is called the accuser, not God or the Holy Spirit. With the full revelation of grace, sin has no dominion over us. Our old self was crucified on the cross with Christ. And when there is sin, we proclaim that we are the righteousness of God in Christ and sin has no dominion over us. The more and more we live this truth and receive God’s grace daily the less and less we sin. Let’s stop focusing on what the accuser wants us to focus on and let’s focus on the Truth that sets us free.
I recently read the story of Simon the Sorcer in Acts who was saved under Philips ministry. When Peter and John were sent to minister there as well, Simon wanted to buy the gift that these apostles had of laying on hands and believers receiving the Holy Spirit. What I find interesting is that Scripture says that Simon believed and was baptized, and after he offered money to buy this gift of the Holy Spirit, Peter rebukes him and tells him that he must repent and pray to The Lord. That sounds like confession after salvation to me. Acts 8:4-24
@”I recently read the story of Simon the Sorcerer in Acts who was saved under Philips ministry”
Acts 8
13 Simon himself believed and was baptized.
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money
19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!
22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.
………………………………………………………………………….
a very good example that Christianity is not about transformation.
Simon was still in the old mentality. his mindset was still the same as old.
Peter said REPENT
now, here is a very catchy statement. We always ASSOCIATE REPENTANCE WITH SIN.
in the Greek, Repentance means Change of Mind.
so Peter was saying “SIMON, CHANGE YOUR MIND! YOU ARE NO LONGER YOUR OLD SELF. YOU ARE A NEW CREATION”
i think Paul also told us “Renew your minds”
@”That sounds like confession after salvation to me”
i cant find the part that it sounds like to me. but this is what i though so far.
Acts 8
22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
……………………………………………….
Simon was a believer. but his mind needs to renew.
question : “How much sins of Simon was forgiven? ALL? 50%?”
answer: Simon’s sins were forgiven. Past Present and Future. ALL 100%
now, regarding what Peter said on v22. interestingly, he said “full of bitterness and captive to sin”
how in the world was Simon captive to sin? he was just baptized a while ago?
so then again, I go back to “Simon needs to renew/change his mind”, he has to repent.
the flesh was still at work with Simon, BUT Simon has been forgiven of all his sins.
maybe Peter didnt knew about Simon?
maybe theres a message here? looking at it Peter was once named “Simon”
or Simon the Sorcerer wasn’t save at all? his purpose since day 1 was to earn money?
Sorry,one other comment about the convicting work of the Holy Spirit found on the following web site: http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/38297-confronting-the-error-of-hyper-grace
And if believers never need to repent of their sins, why did Jesus say, “Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent” (Rev. 3:19)? And how interesting it is that the same Greek word used in John 16:8—where Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of its sins—is the word used by the Lord in Revelation 3:19 (translated there as “rebuke”; and note Rev. 3:22: this is the Spirit speaking!).
It is because God loves us that he rebukes us (not condemns us) and it is because sin is so destructive that he calls us to turn from it. This is the goodness of God, and this is what grace does, as Paul wrote in Titus 2:11-12, “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.”
Thanks for replying to my comments.
My first question is, did you mean to write that Christianity is NOT about transformation? Romans 12:2 states that we should be transformed by the renewing of our minds!
Now, I do believe that Simon was saved, and I believe he was forgiven 100%. What I want to point out is that he did need to repent.
Why, I believe that is a part of the renewing process.
So then, the question comes when we refuse to repent or renew our mind. What happens then? Could that possibly be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Just a thought.
But, we really don’t know if Simon was saved or if his whole intent was to make money. Only God knows, but Peter did feel that he should repent.
I have another question. If the Holy Spirit does not convict, and God does not see our sins, then why does Scripture teach that God disciplines? Why would we need discipline?
Here is an interesting article I read on this subject today:
If sin is no longer an issue, why bother trying not to sin?
http://christianity.net.au/questions/if_god_sees_christians_as_if_they_are_sinless_then_why_do_we_try_to_stop_si
That is all well and good but when trying to avoid sin is a struggle, it seems easier to just sin and patch things up later with God. Yet this sort of complacency with sin is dangerous. Most people do not decide to suddenly stop being Christian, normally it is the process of a lots of little compromises until one day you no longer find Jesus relevant or worth believing.
Hebrews 10:26 puts the consequences of continuing in sin very starkly:
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
In this verse sin is seen not so much as a specific act of sin (I can’t help lieing!), but rather a continual rebellion against God which is never repented from (I will continue to lie and I don’t care!). What this does tell us is that to continue to sin is heading the wrong way, it is not the freedom we have been given in Christ but a return to slavery. While Christians can and do sin, sin must not master the Christian (Rom 6). To become complacent about sin in your life as a Christian is profoundly dangerous.
In the Bible God speaks two ways to Christians, those who are complacent about sin are called to repent and those who are deeply worried about their sin are reminded that they are secure in Christ.
Although Christians will always struggle with sin until Christ’s return, in Christ God gives us the gift of righteousness (1 Cor 5:21). To refuse to struggle against the sin in our lives is to go back and wallow in the filth we have been saved from and to run away from the holy God who has saved us and called us to be holy. 1 John is a great book that reflects this tension of sin in a believers life.
At the heart of it, Christians try not to sin because it is better for us not to. God who made us knows the best way for us to live and has given us power through his spirit to begin to live this better way.
You’re still missing the point, Christ has given us power over the dominion of sin by His power and grace, so that we are not to continue living in sin, the one who is born of God does not continue to live in sin, this is all true, the problem is that you still commit acts of sin at various times, that doesn’t mean you lose your salvation, but if you are not sorrowful for those, and do not feel you have GRIEVED God’s Spirit (also in God’s word concerning the Christians life) during those times (which is having a conscienceness of the fact you have sinnned at that moment) then it is probably in fact because you have no Spirit of God in you to grieve or you have seared your conscience against God. Paul said to the Corinthians that he was GLAD that they were made SORRY in a GODLY way, because it lead to repentance and then to righteousness and life. He was speaking to people he already considered to be Christians. GODLY SORRROW here came to the church no doubt by the Holy Spirit, because Paul also says there is a worldly sorrow which leads to death. So I’m sorry, you’re wrong, God does bring sorrow for sin to His church by the Holy Spirit, worldy sorrow I believe is any sorrow that did not come from His Spirit but from the flesh. Paul is saying this to the Corinthians in the Word of God, that there is GODLY SORROW for SIN in the church. My advice to you is to stop rebelling against the Word of God and leading people astray in this matter and REPENT! You keep going back to the same Scriptures to fight against God’s word using God’s word, this should tell you something is wrong with your doctrine. We should be conscience about Christs finished work , and there is no greater conscienceness of that than when I do sin and I go to God in sorrow through the conviction of the Holy Spirit and feel and remember the presently eternal active working of Christ’s working on my behalf. I choose to allow the Spirit to give that godly sorrow which leads to repentance, instead of rebelling against it and giving place to the devil and letting him sear my conscience. Please stop teaching half truths to God’s people. My guess is this teaching is originating from some man you decided to follow rather than from Christ’s Spirit. You are probably thinking you are free in Christ when in fact you are in bondage to the person’s teaching who has overcome you. My advice is to come out of it and receive God’s whole counsel. I think you had some good points but it is being tainted because of the veil you are placing over your heart in this matter. Just as Paul was to the church in Corinthians, I too will be GLAD when you are made SORROWFUL in a GODLY way for teaching these half truths.
Amraam- you say “and when there is sin we proclaim that we are the righteousness of God in Christ….” If you are not allowed to be conscious of sin in any way then you cannot say “and when there is sin we proclaim…” because to proclaim that you are the righteousness of God in Christ when there is sin is to say you are responding to a sin you are AWARE of by confessing something. Therefore, you are aware of sin, it is only your confession that is different than others. You guys are just being ridiculous and disproving your argument by this, you are blinding yourself to the whole truth. Also look at my previous post and see what “godly sorrow” (which comes from God no doubt) produced in the Corinthian church. It is godly sorrow which PRECEEDED repentance and which LED to repentance among CHRISTIANS and produced many fruits in 2nd Corinthians 7. This was godly sorrow in the church, which produced godly fruit. Stop lying to your conscience and about God’s word. You are in rebellion. Be aware of it and repent lest you be further blinded.
Also, Amraam and our “gospel of grace moderator”, can you tell me how you all interpret the context of Romans ch. 7, as you may know many Christians quote this when they sin as an excuse and a reason as to why they sin. Just curious, this is kind of a different subject I know. But it is something I have ran into while ministering in many countries now. Seems to be a universal excuse for sinning in the Church. Also, how can you “rebuke with authority” (seeing where that authority comes from) if God does not cause His people to be conscience of any sin, would we not then be misrepresenting the Gospel of Christ by rebuking with authority, while at the same time obeying the commandments of God to the church? The word “rebuke” means “to convict, prove, convince, or expose wrong doing.” So God has his ministers convict of wrong-doing in the CHurch just as Paul did to Peter when he called him a “hypocrite,” but yet Paul was doing it on his own authority, rather than authority that comes from God, because if that authority came from God then God would then be convicting someone of sin in His church???? Seems like a fatal argument to me. Just curious to see your thoughts on these 2 issues.
Reblogged this on You are God's beloved and commented:
this is such truth, The Spirit convicts us of Rightouesness
Then how do we interpret 1 John 1:9?
1 John 1:9 (REV)
“If we DO NOT CONFESS OUR SINS,
he is NOT Faithful and NOT Just
and
WILL NOT FORGIVE US OUR SINS
and
WILL NOT PURIFY us from ALL unrighteousness.”
.
How do I interpret that verse?
.
– God is not faithful and not righteous when you do not confess your sins.
– as a result of that, you are not purified from ALL wickedness
–
– TAKE NOT, I HAVE INTERPRETED THE VERSE AS IT IS.
– WITHOUT TAKING CONTEXT INTO CONSIDERATION
– AND WITHOUT OTHER SCRIPTURE REFERENCE
……………………………………………………………………………..
.
.
How do you interpret this verses below?
– my interpretation is in bracket.
.
.
2 Timothy 2:13
“if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself”
[
whether we are Faithful or Not Faithful God remains Faithful
because He cannot disown Himself.
if He disowns Himself, then He is no longer God
“God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man,
that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?” – Numbers 23:19
So if God is not Faithful then He is not God.
]
.
.
.
1 Peter 3:18
“For Christ died for sins once for all,
the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God”
[
God punished all the sins of Abraham, Moses, David, Noah.
why? because God is righteous. He cannot just forget sins.
someone has to pay. and the list includes us
Christ died ONCE and for ALL.
don’t say we are forgiven of Past sins only.
You are Future and so are your sins
]
.
.
.
Hebrews 9:28
“so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins
of many people; and he will appear a second time,
not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who
are waiting for him.
[
again. all our sins has been taken away by Jesus.
“Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”
– John 1:29
when Jesus comes back, He will not deal with your sins,
because God has dealt with your sin at the cross.
so, Jesus is going to save you, not because you have confess sins
but rather because Jesus has taken your sins away.
]
.
.
.
Hebrews 8:12
“For I will forgive their wickedness and
will remember their sins no more.”
Hebrews 10:17
“Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
[
pretty much self explanatory
]
.
……………………………………………………………………………..
.
.
I am not condemning anyone who confess their sins.
please continue and do so.
but make sure to confess everything.
fear, doubt, worry …. are all sins according to the scripture.
make sure to confess all of them.
Hi Mark, that’s an excellent question that I always used to have as well. 1 John seemed to contradict verses in Romans, Galatians, Hebrews…. verses that said that ‘we are cleansed of all sin once and for all and that God remembers our sins no more’.
Then I heard a great preacher of grace mention that 1 John was written against Gnostic beliefs that were starting to enter the church. So I started to study and research on this and read a number of commentaries of 1 John. And they all pointed to the same thing. John was speaking against Gnosticism that was creeping into the church.
Now Gnostic’s believe that salvation is not through a savior and therefore not through Jesus Christ. That salvation is through “higher knowledge”. They also believe this fallen world is not a result of sin but that God created it this way. They separate our spirit from our material world. In other words, by “higher knowledge” you can save your spirit and what you do in the physical world doesn’t really affect anything as it was created that way. Which means that there is no such thing as sin since the world was created this way and no need for forgiveness of sin. They also believe that Jesus is not the Son of God.
With this understanding reading 1 John made so much sense. John starts his letter proclaiming that they have seen with their own eyes and touched with their hands the Word of life. In verses 2 and 3 John writes “2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.”
He goes on to say that they cannot say that they walk with God and continue to walk in darkness (denying that there is sin and denying Jesus). Before verse 9, he says in verse 8 “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” Then verse 9 says “9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. ”
All of Chapter 1 is John proclaiming and testifying who Jesus Christ is and what He accomplished for us. That we were in sin but Jesus Christ, the Son of God came to die as a perfect sacrifice for all of our sins. That is why he starts chapter 2 with the following ” 1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.”
So now in Chapter 2 John no longer is saying that as believers we must confess our sins if we sin. He says that Jesus is our Advocate! He Himself is the propitiation (the mercy seat) for our sins. 1 John 1:9 was to those not believing in Jesus and not believing that there was sin. To confess their sins and accept Jesus so they might be saved. And 1 John 2:1-2 is for believers, for us that are saved.
Now 1 John 1:9 lines up with all of the verses that Savedbygrace quotes above.
Hi Mark,
I have a new post on this subject.
– grace and peace
Reblogged this on GRACE REVEALED.
Reblogged this on the gospel of grace.
Looks like I’m a day late and a dollar short to be commenting, based upon the original post dates here.
I just wanted to throw in, “savedbygrace” that your testimony of the things you listed as being freed from by your entering into the flow of God’s grace through the revelation of Christ, out from under the often acceptable legalism made of the New Testament by many, is very significant and praiseworthy, not to be passed over lightly in the course of discussion, as it serves to confirm as a witness, the manner in which God takes one struggling in human weakness and transforms them with obvious emphasis based upon what HE has done for you and within you (grace), independent of any supplemental action on your part other than you humbling yourself away from your own self-efforts in order to receive.
John 9’s account of the blind man being healed speaks volumes concerning the searing of the conscience demonstrated by individuals who specialized in their own brand of legalism. They absolutely could/would not acknowledge the power of God at work because of their penchant for favoring instead the following of the letter of the Word. Without missing a beat, they continued to shame, dismiss and reduce people rather than rejoice that the genuine presence of God was abounding toward fallen, imperfect man and had just once again visited them.
Your resolve in bringing forth the realities of not only the words of God’s grace but taking the time to scripturally contrast the spirit of the law and the spirit of grace that permits the Gospel to be what it really is (“Good News!”), is making an impact!
Jeoff, that is a resounding truth you said right there!
although I believe the gospel is not about transformation, or transforming us into “good works producing machine”, i simply believe there is a form of change inside us.
that change is the reason why is there a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit.
sometimes i would just like to beg to differ that, the one convicting us of sin is our flesh, who likes to condemn itself.
i do not have the authority, but i believe the word there should be “convince”. the holy Spirit convince us of righteousness. why must He convince? simply because for thousands of years, since day 1 we know we have failed God. it takes someone to consistently remind us we are righteous.
thanks for stopping by brother! i really hope to meet you in person :)
Can’t thank God enuf for directing me to your blog pls notify me wheneva you post something new.God bless you richly.
will do :)
i’m at Romans 5:12-21. its a long 3 months study. forgive me for no new post
– grace and peace
I greatly enjoyed reading this thought provoking debate. Both sides of the argument are correct: we shouldn’t sin, but we do, so repentance is not only required, but expected of those that love the Lord. I do agree that it is God’s will that we focus on his love and his grace to accept the salvation that in turn renews our mind, focusing on the law and/or sin usually moves one to try and do what only the blood of Christ could have and has done or puts one’s spirit in a place of vulnerability to be provoked to feelings of unredeemable unworthiness.
That said, I think the “hole in your theory” is simply in the wording-“sin consciousness.” Not being conscious of sin implies that we completely ignore it as if because Christ died for it, it no longer exists. I know from your comments that that is not what you mean. So, in a very similar fashion to your underlying revelation, i suggest omitting “sin consciousness” from your argument, and only focusing on God’s merciful, redemptive, patient, forbearing, love and grace with a call to attention the transformative characteristics of understanding this revelation and of a personal connection with Him. (this naturally works against the “sin consciousness” as you mean it)
As for praying for forgiveness/confession – Luke 11:1-13 – Jesus teaches his disciples to pray, and asking for forgiveness is included.
As for the Holy Spirit convincing us of sin or righteousness, after much contemplation, I’m not sure. In thinking of personal revelations/experiences, in relation to me sinning, that I attributed to the Holy Spirit, I could believe that my conscience pointed out my sin and the Holy Spirit’s reminder of redemption led me to repentance. Even still, I’m inclined to believe that the Holy Spirit ministers to us personally and although the Bible doesn’t say it explicitly, it doesn’t fully list out the ways/capabilities of either the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. (might the Holy Spirit convict me of sin against another, prompting immediate action to address it, and ask them for forgiveness…?) So maybe that opinion through implication is better presented as such, for one’s own contemplation of His glory.
With eternal love.
ever since i came under grace, i had a ton of discussions regarding sin consciousness. you are right. people have different pre conceive understanding on it. that makes it hard.
i must admit, even in a face to face discussion, it is a feat to describe the subject matter.
i have been out for this few months, not writing much. and for the past 3 months, i am stuck in Romans 5
during this time, i was brought back to the garden of eden.
God does not impute sin apart from the Law. but even so, death is still there because sin is still there.
from Adam to Moses (before the law was given), sin is real.
i must say that there was no consciousness of sins
now, the SIN the brought death here is not the sinful action, but the SIN from Adam.
which in a nut shell tells us that the Law was given to make us conscious of sin.
regarding the holy Spirit convicting of sin, there is a fine line to that.
carefully I am careful when i am saying face to face the Holy Spirit will guide us out of sin. now the sin here is not the Sin from adam that brought death.
i do subscribe to the though that the holy Spirit will help us in situations where the possibility of committing sin is real. we will be guided out of it.
yes, to this extent, i carefully careful say the holy Spirit helps us on those “sinful times”
who does not commit sin? i just did the other day and today. !
i think i am better a sinner than the standard because i know my own actions. not that the holy Spirit tells me what i did was sin, but because i know what i did was sin.
no, i am not a sinner but i sin. the great thing is that the person who lives in me, who is the holy Spirit tells me rather, “you are the righteousness of God in Christ”.
I couldn’t believe it. trust me, those who teach grace are those people who are prone to self condemnation, we are all after all in need of God’s grace.
i totally agree, “sin consciousness” is a tricky phrase. unless one has the revelation from God, it will gonna be a round and round discussion on a round table.
no one will believe Christ is the Son of God unless it has been revealed to them.
I’m also studying Romans, with a group thankfully, the Holy Spirit reveals different things to different people and there is much to contemplate in Romans on multiple levels. My advice, pray incessantly for understanding. I find much counsel comes during sincere conversational prayer.
To share with you what the Holy Spirit has convicted me of concerning sin and the law: The consequence of sin was a separation from God, mentally, then physically. Because of this separation, only the blood of His son could reconcile us back to God by the blood that atones for that which separates us. If law was given to reveal sin, or that which separates us, it is inferred that the law thereby reveals God’s nature – the law which in Christ’s words can be summed up as love. (Psalms 119 is a beautiful contemplation of how God’s law is love)
As a natural, genuinely considerate, unselfish response (in my renewed mind and cleansed heart) to the Holy Spirit’s ministering of the love God has for me, I want to try my best to return it (even knowing it will never measure up) and to be as close to Him as possible. I do this by trying my best to honor his commandments – the commandments that Christ said can be summed up in love for God and love for my neighbor, and that if I loved Him or Our Father, I would keep those commandments. I delight in his law. I love keeping the Sabbath, spending time with my rock and my redeemer, the time He set aside for me since creation. I don’t keep the commandments to be saved, but because I am saved. Through His laws, I see the love that He is, that He wants me to be, and no matter how guilty I might feel when I fail to uphold them, it always serves to bring me closer. Sometimes we need to “experience” how much we need his grace, and how great his love is – even if only to help us show the same to others that we may feel don’t deserve it.
With eternal love.
indeed. we do not obey the law in order to be save.
the saved will love because they are first loved by God.
and if we love, we then unconsciously have fulfilled the law for love is the fulfillment of the Law.
-grace and peace
I am new to this subject having been in the SBC church all my life it was just understood that the Holy Spirit convicts believers when they sin. Once I experienced the Holy Spirit and have begun studying Him I am seeing a different operation. I think it is simpler than we are making it out to be. Allow me to break down the single passage that precisely identifies the role of the Holy Spirit.
John 16:8-11 (KJV)
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
We often imagine a pricking in our soul or heart when we use the word “convict”. In a sense and most times that is what we feel and that is a proper thought. But, let us not stray too far away from the meaning of the word “convict”. The word used here in the Greek means to confute, admonish. It is more in line with the word we would use today meaning “to convince”.
“Confute” means “to prove to be wrong” and “admonish” means “to urge, remind, advise, etc…in a firm, good-willed manner.”
So basically the Holy Spirit confutes, admonishes, convinces the world of sin because the world does not believe on Jesus. That to me is referring to the lost world becoming convinced, convicted, admonished, confuted to change their minds, hearts to believe on Jesus Christ.
He also convinces, convicts, admonishes, the world of righteousness. There could be two ways of interpreting this. First, the Holy Spirit will now have to reveal to mankind what is righteous in the sight of God because Jesus is no longer visible to illustrate true righteousness to us.
Second, this could mean that just as Jesus assured people that the goodness and mercy of God made them righteous by faith, not works, so now the Holy Spirit has taken over this ministry of bearing witness to their righteous relationship with the Father (1Jo 5:13).
He also convinces, convicts, admonishes the world of judgment. This is not referring to the Holy Spirit revealing to people that they are going to hell if they don’t repent. That would fall under the category of reproving the world of sin (Joh 16:9). Rather, this is speaking of the Holy Spirit assuring us that Satan has been judged and stripped of all authority over us. The Holy Spirit will assure us of our victory.
In all of this we must see that the initial verse speaks of reproving the world of all these things. The world apparently in its lost condition.
All of this is aimed at the unbeliever to convince them to accept Christ as their Savior. To assume from this scripture that the Holy Spirit does not work as a convicting agent to the believer when he sins would be adding a teaching that is not taught in this particular passage.
I will return later to share what I think happens when a believer sins. God bless!
By His Amazing Grace!
Mike Richardson
@”To assume from this scripture that the Holy Spirit does not work as a convicting agent to the believer when he sins would be adding a teaching that is not taught in this particular passage.”
how does God see believers? sinners? righteous?
indeed we sin. but as far as God is concern, we are born again through. Christ is sinless.
God looks at us righteous because we are represented by the righteous Man.
we sin and we label our selves as sinners. we condemn ourselves. we do a lot of things.
the world, the unbelieving world wants to abolish sin. they do their best to keep the law, obedience to morals is the name of their game.
the world seeks to be righteous, but fails.
the holy Spirit will never accuse the believers of sin.
the holy Spirit will always remind us of Righteousness, remind us that Righteousness is not by works.. remind us that Righteousness is a gift. will remind us that Righteousness is a person, who is Jesus.
I refuse to teach on experience, but the holy Spirit has never convicted or accuse me of sin. the one who is accusing and convicting me of my sins is myself.
the holy Spirit is our comforter not accuser. and will always be our comforter.
i respect the bible translations and translators. but the word convict there especially on the believers, there has to be a better translation to that.
This is an interesting article by Andrew Wommack. A link is at the bottom and he has more articles about this subject but I thought it would add some interesting views on this subject.
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I’m going to begin this by dropping a bomb: Sin is no longer an issue with God; we are redeemed! With that statement, you are either rejoicing, shocked, or confused. That is one radical statement, but one I believe I can back up by the Word of God.
The message most people hear says that sin breaks your relationship or fellowship with God. The strictest message says that you lose your salvation (“backslide”) every time you sin, until it’s confessed. Others believe your eternal salvation is still secure, but you lose fellowship, can’t get your prayers answered, or can’t be used of God if you sin. That’s not good news, since all of us sin (Rom. 3:23 and 1 John 1:8).
Christians usually cope by trying to keep every sin confessed. Let me just put this bluntly: That’s impossible! The Bible says that whatever is not of faith is sin (Rom. 14:23). Do we always walk in faith? James 4:17 reveals that sin isn’t only doing things that are wrong, but it’s not doing what we know is right. Would any claim they are loving God and others as they know they should?
By these definitions, we all sin through the weakness of our flesh. It’s impossible to keep every sin confessed. Even if it were possible, that puts the burden of salvation on our backs. There wouldn’t be any peace or rest in our relationship with the Lord if that’s the way it worked (Rom. 5:1).
Most people, including Christians, see the forgiveness of sins as something that God can do, and continues to do, but not as something He has completed. From that comes the false concept that we must constantly confess our sins, which makes and keeps us sin conscious.
The New Testament presents the forgiveness of sins as something that is already accomplished and that the effect of this redemption is that we are not even to be conscious of sin (Heb. 10:1-2).
Ask yourself, what produced the forgiveness of sins and when did that happen? Jesus was the Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world (John 1:29). It was through the shedding of Jesus’ blood that you received redemption, which is the forgiveness of your sins (Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14).`
When did Jesus die and shed His blood for our sins? About 2,000 years ago. He will never die again (Rom. 6:9-10). He dealt with the sins of the whole human race once, for all time (Heb. 9:25-28 and 10:10-14). Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins is already an accomplished work.
We don’t have to ask Jesus to forgive our sins; He’s already done it. Paul didn’t tell the Philippian jailor to ask Jesus to forgive him; Paul told him to believe on what Jesus had already done and he would be saved (Acts 16:31). We confess the Lord Jesus, not our sins, to receive this gift of salvation (Rom. 10:9).
Does that mean everyone in the whole world is saved? Certainly not. We have to receive forgiveness by faith (Acts 26:18). The Lord has already forgiven everyone’s sins (1 John 2:2). That’s grace. But we have to put faith in what God has already accomplished by grace to be saved (Eph. 2:8).
Therefore, it’s not a person’s many sins that sends them to hell; sin has already been paid for and forgiven. It’s the singular sin of not believing on Jesus that sends a person to hell. It’s their failure to accept what Jesus did for them that puts them into that place of eternal torment.
John 16:8-9 says,
“And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me.”
The singular sin the Holy Spirit reproves us of is the sin of not believing on Jesus. That’s it. That’s not to say that the Holy Spirit will not show us that things we do are wrong. But He uses them to illustrate that we don’t believe on Jesus. The Holy Spirit isn’t nailing us every time we sin; He loves us back into faith and trust in Jesus. That’s the whole issue with God.
What difference does it make in our lives if we accept forgiveness as something that has already been accomplished or not? There is a huge difference! It gives us security and peace, knowing that God isn’t mad at us and won’t be mad at us. Our sins are already forgiven—and not just the past sins we committed before we were born again. All of our sins—past, present, and even future ones—are already forgiven.
Someone will say, “How can God forgive our sins before we commit them?” Well, you better pray that He can do that, because Jesus only died for our sins once; 2,000 years ago; before you committed any sin. If He can’t forgive sins before you commit them, then you can’t be saved.
It says in Hebrews 10:10-12 and 14,
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” (emphasis mine).
We have received eternal, not momentary, redemption (Heb. 9:12). One sacrifice was made for all sin forever, and we have been perfected forever. How can we read these scriptures and come to any other conclusion than that every sin—past, present, and future—was forgiven and our redemption is eternal?
If you have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus for your sins by faith, then your spirit is perfect (Heb. 12:23)! Your spirit has been born again. A million years from now, your spirit will be identical to what it is right now, and it is identical to Jesus (1 Cor. 6:17 and 1 John 4:17). One-third of your redemption is complete.
So, am I making light of sin or saying sin doesn’t matter? No! Sin is a terrible thing, and it’s an inroad for Satan into your life (Rom. 6:16). I hate sin! I live a holier life than most of you reading this. I just value the blood and the atonement of Jesus above sin. His sacrifice was infinitely greater than all the past, present, and future transgressions of the entire human race. Jesus overpaid the debt we owed.
You might say, “What about 1 John 1:9?”
I’m glad you brought that up.
First John 1:9 says,
“If we confess our sins, [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (brackets mine).
We don’t have to confess sin in order to be saved, to retain, or to maintain our salvation. If I believed that was so, I would kill every person who came forward for salvation. I might go to hell, but that’s the only way they would ever get to heaven. We need to confess it, not for the purpose of becoming born again, but because our flesh gets defiled. That gives Satan a legal right to function in our flesh (Rom. 6:16).
Confessing we have sinned means we are coming back into agreement with God and out of agreement with the devil. That stops Satan from dominating us through that sin and draws the forgiveness and purity, which is already in our born-again spirits, out into our flesh.
Our born-again spirits are already eternally redeemed (Heb. 9:12). The other two-thirds, your soul and body, have also been purchased by His blood, but their redemption has not yet taken place. However, God has made provision for this as well.
Romans 8:23 reads,
“And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”
Ephesians 1:14 says,
“Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
When redemption is complete in spirit, soul, and body, we will know Him as we are known (1 Cor. 13:12). But until then, we can experience a renewed mind through His Word. And although we are waiting for the redemption of our bodies, we can receive healing while we live in our mortal bodies. God has made provision for both the soul and the body even though their redemption has not yet been made manifest.
Unfortunately, most Christians are not taking advantage of these provisions. They have not renewed their minds, and they still don’t understand that we are also redeemed from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:13). The average New Testament believer is still trying to get God to respond to them based on their performance. Why? Because they don’t know that the performance covenant of the Old Testament Law is over. We are now under the New Testament ministry of grace and faith (2 Cor. 3:7-8).
The Law was given to convict people of their self-righteousness so they could see their need for a savior. Praise God, we are now no longer under the Law. First Timothy 1:9 says that the Law is not made for a righteous man. And who is righteous? Any person who is born again (2 Cor. 5:21).
Hebrews 7:12 and 18 says,
“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.”
What a radical statement! A disannulling! The word disannulling literally means cancellation, to make null and void. The Old Testament Law has been nullified, canceled, done away with. The Law was weak and unprofitable. It was only a stop-gap measure until Jesus (Gal. 3:23-25).
Ephesians 1:3-5 says,
“[He] hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings…hath chosen us…Having predestined us unto the adoption of children” (brackets and emphasis mine).
In the Greek, “hath” is an aortas tense, which means it is a done deal—it’s an accomplished fact. So how blessed is all spiritual blessings? Verse 6 says that we have been accepted in the beloved. Really, that is a super understatement. The Greek word that is used for “accepted” is only used twice in the New Testament. The other place is in Luke 1 where the the Angel Gabriel appeared unto Mary.
Gabriel said, “Hail thou that are highly favoured, the Lord is with thee” (verse 28).
The Greek word for “highly favoured” is the only other time that this word was used. When it says that we are accepted in the beloved, it is saying He has made us highly favored. Mary hasn’t got anything on a born-again believer. Every one of us is accepted, chosen, and highly favored. It’s all part of redemption.
Understanding redemption, the complete forgiveness of your sins, is foundational to understanding the New Covenant and how God deals with you today. If you’re born again and still asking questions like these: “Can I lose my salvation?” “If I die with unconfessed sin, will I go to heaven?” or “Does God answer the prayers of someone who still sins?” then you do not understand redemption.
Redemption is very practical, and your understanding of it will determine what you are able to receive from God, not just in eternity, but here and now.
This teaching is located at the following link. http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/redemption
I struggled with this idea for some time being the staunch Baptist that I was. What happens when a Christian sins. Does God punish that person or bring retribution into their life to scold them or teach them something. After all, we teach the chastening hand of God against those sons who sin.
The way I am understanding it is this. 2 Corinthians 5:21 tells us that “He became sin who knew no sin that we might become His righteousness.” Jesus became like me so that I could become like Him. God’s wrath has already been satisfied against sin in the propitiation of His Son. Therefore if God punishes me for sinning then that would be a double jeopardy and it would state that Jesus’ death was not enough to atone. If this is true and God cannot ignore our willful and unwillful sins then what happens when we sin?
I was meditating on it one day and asked God how it works if He does not get angry at us when we sin. The verse popped in my mind of Malachi 3:10-12. If we obey and give we will reap blessing and the devourer will be rebuked. If we don’t then we will not be blessed and the devourer will be active in our life. So! If we walk in the righteousness we are then we will be blessed and the devourer will be held at bay. If we walk in sin then we miss the blessing and the consequences of sin will devour our lives.
I think we are on the same page.
for years, i know very well that our actions have certain consequences or results.
but it was only recently that i learned to compartmentalize the Righteousness of Faith and Works righteousness
i often hear Christians teach on tithing. some say its already satisfied, some say we have to do it.
by merely agreeing on either side, it means i miss the point.
some Christians hate the Law. and I ask why hate the Law? well, let me state my case. I am for the Law and I am not for the Law.
in terms of Justification before God, we should hate the Law. spit on it, throw it into the ocean.
but there is righteousness before man. of which i do not wish to talk about online.
back to tithing. both are right. we must not tithe and we must tithe.
so, what does this all have to do with the Holy Spirit convicting of believers of sin? very much!
I do not wish to create a doctrine nor establish a Law that says “thou shall…”
rather i would want to establish that everything points to Christ.
bringing my self down, putting my self in the context of the world, sin is still there. no matter how much we try to avoid it, it will haunt us.
in the end, it is not a question whether the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin. it is rather a question of which side are you? Law or Grace?
again, in the context of Justification.
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13
RE savedbygrace His statement is not a question and is a really really big problem for you saying “we do not obey the law to be saved” in your previous post.
It is true that no one will be declared righteous by God for obeying the written code, but the law that fellow I’ve quoted is not referencing the written code. The law referenced in his statement is apart from the written code and you must have the faith to obey the law he is referencing or not be declared righteous by God.
a bit sketchy.
so what you are saying is that “you must have the faith to obey the law he”
if that is what you meant, then im trying to reconcile it with what Paul said in Galatians
“But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”” – Galatians 3:12
perhaps you can fill me in?
No. I have not said “you must have the faith to obey THE(OT)LAW he” (sic).
What Paul along with the rest of the apostles say is that THE(OT)LAW was changed after the fact of Jesus crucifixion Heb. 7:12, a word was added Rom. 5:20. The OT code has not been abolished by the change. “The one who does them shall live by them” (does them) simply means offenses of written code.
“shall live by them” simply means the faith of confessing of them being sin.
What is your confession? 1. “Oh God I am so ecstatically happy and grateful Jesus was murdered in my place and fulfilled the law for me.” or 2. “God I am so very sorry your son Jesus lost his life when he was murdered.” You make the choice. But pick #1 and you disobey the law that has been added and it is only that offense by law that is not forgivable.
Thank you for your post. I have been a Christian for 20 + years. I have been a ministry leader, a missionary, yet only experienced glimpses of Gods grace. My mind was still looking to the law for a formula and for answers, but it never seemed to be enough. I often would get depressed and just thought this was part of life. Over the past year I have sat under the grace message and can’t believe the change in my life. Please keep preaching that more may be set free. I agree this is not a salvation message….but a message of life and freedom. As I read the word I feel the veil has been lifted and I now live in the realm of it is finished! Don’t give up. This is a message that needs to be preached. It is a message of rest. I think of the prodical son and how he prepared this great speech of repentance….of defense of why he could “work” as a servant. I love what happens next….the Father runs and hugs his neck! The son never gets a chance to repent or defend himself. It is no longer required! The father is so gracious. I had once been satisfied eating the crumbs from the floor because at least I was in the room with Jesus. I now through the grace message realize there is nothing I can do, no amount of following the law or obedience is going to earn me a set. It is finished. I now have my place and am sitting in the lap of my savior. I am resting once and for all. And therefore because of the place I have received as a gift, I can’t help but tell others about the transformation that has taken place. When I think of my sin or the sin of others, I instead of confess my sin and feel condemned, I thank my savior that it is finished that he has already justified me actions and I can pick up and move on. I no long hang my head in shame but hold my head high because Jesus is enough for me!
amen and amen and amen!
welcome my sibling from Sarah :)
– grace and peace
Is it possible that you are not looking closely enough to what Jesus was telling His disciples in John 16? For instance, how is it that the Holy Spirit will convict (convince) the world of sin? He hasn’t put up a giant billboard to make a proclamation. No, it is through the disciples that He would do this work. May I suggest that you ask the text more questions and really try to understand it before making an complete theology.
Also, I am not sure how to take your advice, “drop 1 John 1:9.” Should I listen to man or God?
@ Jeff. You need to identify whom you are addressing a question to.
Ok. My previous post is in response to the original thread by savedbygrace.
Hi Jeff. @”Is it possible that you are not looking closely enough to what Jesus was telling His disciples in John 16?”
John 16:8
8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin
9 about sin, because people do not believe in me;
————————————————
as much as i want to believe that the holy Spirit convicts Believers of sin, i couldn’t seem to reconcile the logic of the statement.
if you follow,
“9 …. because people do not believe in me”
they did NOT BELIEVE, so what are they?
– They are Unbelievers and what else?
– They are convicted of sin
—————————————————————-
@”Also, I am not sure how to take your advice, “drop 1 John 1:9.” Should I listen to man or God?”
no. never listen to man.
BUT! listen to history. see the Gnostics during John’s time.
I am not stopping you from confessing your sins. please, do so.
make sure to confess them all. do it everyday until the day you leave this world.
there is nothing to lose from confessing your sins. even your sins.
now if you want to go further and you want to do penance? you can do it as well.
you may also confess your sins to a priest. feel free.
i have this question for you. have you ever been convicted of Righteousness?
@Jeff. You were addressing someone’s position that is evidently considered contrary to Jn. 16:8. It is not that I am disagreeing with you, but whatever the position that you are taking exception with is it not identified in your post. As an overview of this site’s agenda that the Holy Spirit’s objective is to convict the world of righteousness this position is a fallacy since Jn. 16:8 declares the opposite.
Hi there..I only had time to read a little of your blog, but came to a problem with your section where you say “THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT REMIND THE BELIEVER TO CONFESS SINS” your second point. Yet the verse you use: 1 John 1:9 (NKJV) 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Does not actually support what you’re saying!? If you did say THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT REMIND YOU OF CONFESSED SIN, then that would be an entirely correct and the verse would be true. However you’ve focused on the HS not reminding us to confess? Could explain this a little, or point me to a part of this above discussion where someone may have had this question already. Sorry I decided to stop there, because already something was clashing scripturally I believe. Thanks, Richard Jordaan ~ From Quick Study Prophetic.
@”I only had time to read a little of your blog, but came to a problem with your section where you say “THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT REMIND THE BELIEVER TO CONFESS SINS””
…………………….
yes.
.
@”Yet the verse you use: 1 John 1:9 (NKJV) 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Does not actually support what you’re saying!?”
…………………….
i do believe the holy Spirit does not remind believers of sin. heres why.
the holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sins.
BUT the holy Spirit convicts the believer of Righteousness.
IF the holy Spirit does not convict of sins… why would the holy Spirit remind us of sins?
now.. the scripture says “Christ died for our sins once and for all”
in other words. all our sins has been taken cared of.
heres another
1 John 1:7 “and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us of all sins”
IF ALL OUR SINS has been taken cared of, then
why would the holy Spirit remind us to confess sins?
i couldn’t find a verse from any of the apostles letter saying “the holy Spirit reminds believer to confess sins”
but i do agree, confessing of sins is not sin.
@”If you did say THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT REMIND YOU OF CONFESSED SIN, then that would be an entirely correct and the verse would be true.”
…………………….
so what you are trying to say is this, or in other words.
that the holy Spirit has come to remind us of unconfessed sins?
just as how many sins have we committed since birth? have we confessed them all?
the holy Spirit does not remind us of sins, NOT BECAUSE WE HAVE CONFESSED EACH ONE OF THEM
the holy Spirit does not remind us of sins BECAUSE the blood of Jesus has wash all our sins (1 john 1:7).
thats the new covenant. as stated
“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
– Hebrews 8:12
“Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
– Hebrews 10:17
the legal basis for our forgiveness of sins is not confession, but the blood of Jesus.
@”However you’ve focused on the HS not reminding us to confess? Could explain this a little, or point me to a part of this above discussion where someone may have had this question already”
…………………….
as you may know. the popular
1 john 1:9 “if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousnesses”
i wont go into detail, but that verse was part of a message written to gnostics.
as you may know the gnostics does not believe in sin.
the entire chapter 1 of first (1) John was mainly focused on the non believers
now checkout 1 John 2:12
“I am writing to you, dear children,
because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name”
– 1 John 2:12
in my understanding, what the letter is saying
“My Children. your sins has been forgiven (past tense) on account of His name…. NOT ON THE ACCOUNT OF YOUR CONFESSION”
……………………………………..
but that’s just what i understood from the scripture.
confessing your sins is not a sin. go on.
if you want to confess your sins, feel free. confess them all.
but as for me, I know ALL my sins has been forgiven. therefore i will live a peaceful life with God through His Son Jesus.
“there is therefore NOW no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus”
– Romans 8:1
:)
– grace and peace
Thanks. Well it makes more sense when you’ve developed a theology which comes against confession. I personally believe sin is sin, Romans 3:23 – and our nature is sinful, Romans 7:18. Yet it is the message of the Spirit of life which liberates us from those clutches of death and decay, Romans 12:2. Also I just want to note even to myself from my previous comment that the verse 1jn1.9 does not actually talk about the Holy Spirit at all. How did we get there? The Holy Spirit is with us according to the will of God, Romans 8:27. It is positive reinforcement of the things God desires, not the things he does not desire. Yet a passage like Galatians 5:19-21 lists a few things that if we continue practicing these things we will not inherit the kingdom of God. Therefore the lifestyle of death is still prohibited. As well the Christian can clearly still make choices to live a different way. I know my own spirit resonates with God, and it is this thing that tells me the mind of God, and therefore it gives me peace by acting upon those things. However when it comes to Matthew 6:12, what does that mean now? Also other teachings of Christ, fulfilling the law, Matthew 22:34-40 – the law of love which we all know so well, where does that fit if we’re to be questioning Jesus’ teaching?
indeed sin is sin. but I believe you are talking about the manifest sin.
“The Sin” produces sin. Sinners sin because they are sinner.
but sin cannot make anyone a sinner, it was “The Sin” from Adam that made all man Sinners
Galatians 5:19-21 talks about the manifestation of the Flesh.
now, contrast it with the Fruit of the Spirit.
can you by any means be under the two category?
Christians do commit sin. but ALL their sins are forgiven. willfully or un-willfully
………………….
@”Also other teachings of Christ, fulfilling the law, Matthew 22:34-40 – the law of love which we all know so well, where does that fit if we’re to be questioning Jesus’ teaching?”
when Jesus walked the earth, Jesus taught the Law perfectly. obeyed, fulfilled the Law.
Jesus did all those things because we cannot fulfill the Law on ourselves.
Grace is the reason why we are saved. its never because we avoided sin.
but let me state something important. I am against sin and sinning.
by all means let us avoid sin.
but the thing is how? surely going under the Law will not help us avoid sin? the scripture says “the Law makes sin utterly sinful”
surely the Law cannot make us righteous.
so how do we avoid sin? remember when Paul ask God to take away the torn in the flesh? 2 Corinthians 12:8
and God’s answer was “my Grace is sufficient for you” 2 Corinthians 12:9
if we have sinned, the holy Spirit will convict us of righteousness. the holy Spirit will remind us “you are still righteous”.
my basis is simple. Jesus never reminded Peter of his grave sins.
the holy Spirit is our Comforter.
when a true believer have committed a sin, a true believer griefs.
a true believer does not enjoy sin.
a true believer will struggle with sin.
“the good i want to do i do not do
but the evil i hate that i keep on doing”
Yes you’re quiet right. The Holy Spirit does focus not on the sin, but on the forgiveness. Exactly like when Jesus said he’d be raised like the bronze serpent in the times of Moses. The poison is not the issue it is the salvation which is the most important! Focusing on the poison will only result in pain grief and distress, however focusing on the savior is life and continued life forever. I agree with that. I think I’ve simply forgotten some of these elementary principles and have become more so a judge rather than a peacemaker. Sin is sin that is still very clear, and like you’ve spoken of here it is the Holy Spirit will convict us of righteousness instead. However is there a passage in the bible on that? All I can find is John 16:8, but this says he convicts the world of righteousness as well, therefore if he convicts the believer of righteousness like he does the world, that verse will say he convicts the believer of sin as well? Also can you answer me about 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 what do we do with people are to be considered sinners? Are we to A. reveal their sins for the need of Christ; or B. love them and offer them freedom from their bondage without talking about their sin? What is our duty to the world therefore? To reject or to embrace? I’m simple cautious of the embracing, because many have not drawn clear enough lines when it comes to truth and so have compromised and fallen away. According to you how are we to treat them then?
@”All I can find is John 16:8, but this says he convicts the world of righteousness as well, therefore if he convicts the believer of righteousness like he does the world, that verse will say he convicts the believer of sin as well? ”
…………………..
the answer to your question is on the next verse
John 16:9-11
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
@”Also can you answer me about 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 what do we do with people are to be considered sinners?”
…………………..
@”what do we do with people are to be considered sinners?”
1 Corinthians 5:11-13
“You must remove the evil person from among you.”
how about those Christians who does much worst than the pagan?!
“And you should remove this man from your fellowship”
1 Corinthians 5:1-2
1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do.
I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.
2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.
now………….. but this is just me
if I am the top pastor the a church, i will post this sign board.
“we welcome all the rejects of the world, as well as the rejects of the church”
therefore it will be
B. love them and offer them freedom from their bondage without talking about their sin?
but for those who reject they are sinners, to those who do not believe in God. i will choose
A. reveal their sins FOR the need of Christ;
just like 1 John 1:9 is for, for those who deny sin
@” Also I just want to note even to myself from my previous comment that the verse 1jn1.9 does not actually talk about the Holy Spirit at all. How did we get there?”
oh.. i was trying to make sense in relation to the blog post. i’m sorry for getting you confused
Okay thanks.
Even Paul affirming the law at different times? 1Cor6:9; Eph5:5-6; & Gal5:18-24 What’s he going on about then?
@”1 Corinthians 6:9″
“do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God?”
@”Ephesians 5:5-6″
“No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God”
will right doers inherit the kingdom of God?
will non idolater inherit the kingdom of God?
i dont think so. right doers and wrong doers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
only the children of God shall inherit the kingdom.
to those who have receive Jesus, to those who have adopted as God’s children shall inherit the kingdom
children of God will at least once in their entire lifetime, will commit a sin.
is that wrong doing? it is!
haven’t we sinned after being born again?
on the other side. preachers says that those particular verses was talking to the Jews.
@”Galatians 5:18-24″
“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; …”
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, ……”
that is what Grace is all about. walk in Grace. not the Law.
“
Okay I can see you’re answering this from a Law perspective. However when Paul is listing things (which obviously depicts a lifestyle choice) those things clearly clashing with the values of the kingdom and therefore the inheritance of that, am I correct in saying those choices contrary to the kingdom have no part in it? I’m just trying to understand the passages you’ve even quoted about those things if done in the church what to do with them? Do we call those people sinners therefore? Banish them from the community? That is if they persist with those ways of course! Are we to be gracious, yet under grace? To forgive and it will be forgiven you? What does that verse mean? Sorry for all these questions I’m just really wanting to be clear on these things in my own life, I appreciate your efforts very much!
for now, i will avoid verses.. so this will be from a father’s perspective.
I have 4 children. they are all unique. i deal with them very differently.
when the eldest commits sin, i would simply “talk” with him. he understands. shake it off, move one.
the next one, i try to talk. but then he continues doing sin and makes it more worst. in fact, when you say “eat your lunch” not only he WOULD NOT eat his lunch, he would GRAB the PLATE and Throw it and scatter the food all over the dining.
so I spank him. yes, not spiritually. physically.
ok. back to scripture.
one of the things that really mesmerizes me was when Paul called the immoral Christians in Conrithians.. “Brother”. but then, Physical actions must be implemented. hence, the common thing was to expel them among the congregation. just like how those who claims to be Believers were treated.
now, I would like to think that this “Claiming to be believers” are actually “CON-ARTIST”
they were probably at the church to get money from the people, or to seduce believers..
they should be expelled because they are criminals.
i presume the reason why Paul recommends “believers who have committed immorality” to be expelled from the church, is to show no partiality or favoritism.
can you imagine sending to jail those criminals who are unbelievers and NOT sending to jail criminal believers?
i know.. your next question “what? a believer can commit a crime?”
Paul simply gave a “practical” approach to church management. i believe this is part of the unwritten handbook “church 101”
this has nothing to do with salvation, righteousness, justification before God.
its just a simple advice from Paul like.. “if you do not want to work, dont eat! you are worst than a pagan!”
@”the answer to your question is on the next verse John 16:9-11 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.”
I do realize these further verses explain verse eight. However you’ve not explained to me first where to find a verse anywhere in scripture where the Holy Spirit convicts the believer to righteousness, and secondly explained away my view that if this is your foundation verse then the Holy Spirit will convict the believer as well. Please note I am not saying the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin. So you’ve not answered my question about that. All I can see is in our written information within the scriptures to pursue righteousness – Matt 5:6 “blessed are those who hunger and thirst fir righteousness” – and another Matt6:33 “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” It therefore is a choice by the will of the human, but you claim the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of righteousness. From my understanding the day we’re sealed with the long promised Holy Spirit (the day we’re saved – Ephesians 1:13) was the day we were imprinted with a conscience toward God, also spoken of by the Prophet Jeremiah 31:33 “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts” This is to say we are made new with new desires, therefore how does the Holy Spirit continue to convict the believer of Righteousness, verses 9-11 in John 16 don’t answer what I am asking you.
@”now………….. but this is just me. if I am the top pastor the a church, i will post this sign board. “we welcome all the rejects of the world, as well as the rejects of the church”
I think the only sign board that could ever be posted is: “Jesus the way the truth and the life, whoever believes in him will be saved” – by faith alone (Heb11:6; Jn3:18; Rom10:13) do we enter the kingdom of heaven, this is not to do with the Church in anyway, but rather the kingdom it is a far greater understanding of God’s rule and reign in this age and the age to come. Faith is what qualifies you not being a reject. Thus your saying I find is not true to our commission to preach to every creature (not just rejects) baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We need to call for those who want to believe reject or not. This is too isolated and marginalized.
Thanks for all this communication so far, I’m not sure how many more questions will come up the days to come, but we’ll see – it’s been fun!
Richard Jordaan ~ From quickstudypro.wordpress.com
thank you as well.
This is so satisfactory, but what makes Holy Spirit feel grieved sir?
Interpret and analyse this bible portion for me sir, Ephesians.4:;30
ephesians 4:20-30
reading it just now.
is a list of “do’s and don’t”. one of which “do not grieve the holy Spirit”
i have a very general though on “what grieves the holy Spirit”. so i am not very specific except what the subject post is about.
however, i do not conform to the common thought that the holy Spirit is grieved when we sin. no, i do not subscribe to that thought. i shall say that for now.
but my thought says “the holy Spirit is grieved when we reject His conviction of righteousness”.
“the holy Spirit is grieved when we come to the Lord’s supper declaring we are sinners rather than declaring righteous because of the blood of Jesus”
I see this passage as a list of separate issues raised by Paul. Verse 30 is a separate or individual point raised which shares the cause of the Holy Spirit being grieved. I think he is saying that when we stray from the truth that we are sealed unto the day of redemption then we grieve the Holy Spirit.
The question is how do we grieve Him in this way? What is the opposite teaching of being sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption? That false teaching/belief would be what grieves the Holy Spirit.
If you consider the word “sealed”, which seems to be the crux of what grieves Him it means “to stamp or preserve”. Proper translation might be “in who or in which” we are sealed.
The root means “to fence or inclose”. This leads my mind to the passage in which Jesus stated, “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.” John 10:29
I think the context is dealing with our security of salvation. A seal signifies ownership. a seal in Biblical times could only be broken by the king or someone the king has given authority to. In this case on God can break the seal, the covenant of salvation with us. Once we truly belong to Him only He can disown us which He has promised not to do for eternity.
When we believe or teach that we can be disqualified for salvation after having received the Holy Spirit it grieves Him that we would think the blood of Jesus to be so powerless that it can save us yet not keep us saved.
Notice how he seems to strongly express this teaching in the first chapter of Ephesians: Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Another verse:
2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Just some thoughts…
@” In this case on God can break the seal, the covenant of salvation with us”
@”When we believe or teach that we can be disqualified for salvation after having received the Holy Spirit it grieves Him that we would think the blood of Jesus to be so powerless that it can save us yet not keep us saved.”
………………….
I agree that God will break his covenant of salvation to us
“God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind”
– Numbers 23:19
“For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And their sins will I remember no more”
– Hebrews 8:12
does it mean God is a liar? by no means.
is God a man that changes His mind? by no means.
we will never lose our salvation by any means or because we grieved the holy Spirit.
if so, then we should stop preaching the gospel. then the gospel is no longer good news.
but no and a big NO. we are eternally secured.
it is a comfort to know that only God can break the seal, and in this case He wont break the seal of salvation because it has been brought by the precious blood of Jesus, His Son.
Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit & the only Sin that is unpardonable is to Reject Jesus as Lord & Savior. I say that knowing many believers would question miracles done by so called Godly men & might even say it was Satan at work & not The Holy Spirit.
When you say ‘throw out 1 Jn 1:9 and focus instead on . . .’ I understand why, but let me give you a different perspective on the Promise of 1 Jn 1:9 that I think is important to recognize:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Sandwiched in our condition (vs. 8,10), God affirms our position in Christ (vs. 9): If we confess our sins (noun, not verb) HE is FAITHFUL to FORGIVE our sins and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.
When we understand the >>> once-for-all . . . for-all-time <<< sacrifice and Perfect High Priesthood of Christ, we understand that ALL means ALL, and that the maintenance of that cleansing is because of the complete Work of Christ and not based on repeated confession of sinning on our parts – WOW!
Then we're not groveling, hoping for continued grace and mercy from an angry God, but are instead repenting (having a change of mind) and confessing (agreeing with God about who we are in Christ), and THANKING a loving God, who is patient with us as we learn from our mistakes and bad choices.
And that is a good and fruitful place to be =o).
I do not believe that the Holy Spirit “convicts” us of righteousness, but I do believe that He reminds us that we are righteous in Christ, as He would any gospel truth…
HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT HELPS BELIEVERS BY CONVICTING THE WORLD OF SIN, RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUDGMENT
Shortly before His arrest, Jesus told His disciples that there would be three things the coming Holy Spirit would convict the world of—sin, righteousness and judgment:
John 16:8
And when He [the Holy Spirit] has come, He will convict the WORLD of SIN, and of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and of JUDGMENT:
These three convictions by the Spirit are meant for the world. They are not meant for believers of Christ, because Jesus separated the two groups when He told the Father in the following chapter that His disciples “are in the world” but “not of the world” (John 17:11, 14). Since those who believe in Him are not of the world, then these three Spirit convictions cannot be for them.
Now, why would the Holy Spirit convict the world (or non-believers) of sin, righteousness and judgment?
To “convict” means to reprove or admonish. The original Greek word used here is “elengchoo.” It’s a negative word that means, “to convict, refute, confute, generally with a suggestion of the shame of the person convicted…to find fault with, correct…reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove…to chasten, punish” (Thayer’s Greek Lexicon). So why would the Holy Spirit do all this to non-believers in the three areas of sin, righteousness and judgment, such that they feel some sense of shame for each conviction?
The answer lies in what Jesus told His disciples just before He spoke of the coming Holy Spirit and His convictions:
John 16:2–3, 7–8
They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me…Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
The disciples would soon face much persecution for their faith in Christ. They would be thrown out of the synagogues and some of them would even be killed by religious zealots crazy enough to think they were helping God.
Because of this impending persecution, Jesus told them, “Look guys, it’s better I go away so that the Helper can come. When He comes, He will help you by convicting the world of sin, righteousness and judgment.”
The disciples needed supernatural help to carry on the ministry of Jesus, or the Great Commission. And help was coming to them in the person of the Holy Spirit, aptly named, the “Helper.” And He would help them, as they preached the gospel of Jesus Christ, by convicting their non-believing hearers of sin, righteousness and judgment.
How so?
1. Of SIN, “because they do not believe in Me” (John 16:9):
As the disciples preached how Jesus is the Messiah and how one needs to believe in Him to be saved, the Holy Spirit would help them by convicting the hearts of their hearers, telling these unbelievers that refusing to believe in Jesus is a grave sin for which there is no forgiveness, since they would be rejecting the one-and-only final sacrifice for sin that God accepts.
2. Of RIGHTEOUSNESS, “because I go to My Father and you see Me no more” (John 16:10):
As the disciples preached how righteousness comes by faith and not by works (obeying the Law of Moses), the Holy Spirit would again help them. He would convict the hearts of their hearers, telling these unbelievers that the only righteousness that God accepts is the righteousness of the One who came from the Father, and who was able to return to the Father because He had successfully finished the job He was sent to do. A righteousness from above was required, and this righteousness is a gift that must be received by faith, not works.
3. Of JUDGMENT, “because the ruler of this world is judged” (John 16:11):
Finally, as the disciples preached about God’s holy judgment against sin and unrighteousness or self-righteousness, the Holy Spirit would once more help them. He would convict the hearts of their hearers, telling these unbelievers that there will certainly be divine judgment for the world, since the devil himself could not escape God’s judgment.
Friend, that’s how the Helper helps us even today, as we preach the gospel in and to an unbelieving and sometimes hostile world. We may speak with eloquence, passion, boldness and even wisdom, but ultimately, we still need the help of the Holy Spirit. Only He can convict the hearts of our unbelieving hearers with regard to sin, righteousness and judgment, and bring about revelation, repentance and salvation!
You cannot “drop” any part of scripture to suit your opinions.
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void. Luke 16:17
what do you think of this verses
“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.””
– Hebrews 8:12
“”I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins.”
– Isaiah 43:25
“And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.””
– Romans 11:27
“Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity And passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, Because He delights in unchanging love.”
– Micah 7:18
I’ve never understood the philosophy of the saints being free of sin. We live in a corrupted body in a corrupted world. We clearly do things that are unrighteous. We are justified but our sanctification is a process. Completeness only comes when we leave Earth and have a new uncorrupted body.
The confusion comes when associating guilt with shame. We are not shamed because a priceless gift was given for our salvation. We have no shame because we are assuredly citizens of Heaven waiting for our homecoming. Meanwhile on Earth we relate to imperfect sinners who feel shame by being imperfect (at least in the past) and relatable to those we witness to.
That this passage is talking to the church is clear in (1 John 1:5-7 NKJV) 5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
That we still live in a corrupted world and in a body where our flesh does not always stand up to temptation. (1 John 1:8-10 NKJV) 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Anyone claiming to have “arrived” is a false witness. But we should also be a victor over our temptations. And its coming together as a body admonishing and correcting one another in love. Even if the process of spiritual growth involves Biblical discipline.
We cannot be a Michael Jordan, Steph Curry, or LaBron James if we never discipline our bodies and our desires. Seems to me there was someone of some note who likened his walk on this Earth as training for running the race or not boxing against the wind.